Berserker snares and stacking...

I was playing w/ my lil necro the other night and duo'd up with a Berserker in Kurns. We were movin about killin stuff and I noticed that my 'Creeping Crud' or whatever the dot/snare is at lvl 16 was not hitting, even on light blues. I know it is resisted fairly often, but it looks like it just won't stack w/ the zerker snare. Has anyone else found this to be the case? Are all snares like that? If that is the case, how long does a Berserker snare last? It would suck if a berserker couldn't use their class abilities because some other class with a longer/more reliable snare was unable to use such a spell. /c: Whats the community stance on that?

Originally Posted by Riktiki

I was playing w/ my lil necro the other night and duo'd up with a Berserker in Kurns. We were movin about killin stuff and I noticed that my 'Creeping Crud' or whatever the dot/snare is at lvl 16 was not hitting, even on light blues. I know it is resisted fairly often, but it looks like it just won't stack w/ the zerker snare. Has anyone else found this to be the case? Are all snares like that? If that is the case, how long does a Berserker snare last? It would suck if a berserker couldn't use their class abilities because some other class with a longer/more reliable snare was unable to use such a spell. /c: Whats the community stance on that?

I have received a similar complaint from a SK that I group with on a regular basis.

Sounds to me like a bug. Our snare is supposed to be a strike against our foe's legs and not a spell. So really there shouldn't be a stacking problem. So it's got to be a bug.

[fatbuk]

Originally Posted by Loter

Sounds to me like a bug. Our snare is supposed to be a strike against our foe's legs and not a spell. So really there shouldn't be a stacking problem. So it's got to be a bug.

It would theoretically be nice if it was what you described, but it isn't. I get the message that my snare won't take hold pretty often - which means it is acting like a spell. Considering how crappy our snare is though its pretty sad that other ones don't all overwrite it.

unfortunate and strange as it is, out snare and stuns work as spell, have you ever run out of axes mid fight with out knowing? you get a message saying can't cast spell Leg Strike, missing required component Blunt Axe

so our utility abilites you could say are spells, even though they are crappy for the most part and don't use mana to cast/use

That's just what I meant. I know it works like a spell. What I'm saying is that I don't find it logical that it does. I see it as an extra strike, a hit, whatever. Therefore it ought to act likewise and then there shouldn't be a stacking issue at all. But what do I know about fixing that... I'm not a programmer, hehe. I just hope these things work differently in EQ2 that will have a totally different program core.

[Bonzz Aye]

Originally Posted by fatbuk

It would theoretically be nice if it was what you described, but it isn't. I get the message that my snare won't take hold pretty often - which means it is acting like a spell. Considering how crappy our snare is though its pretty sad that other ones don't all overwrite it.

I get similar messages all the time when grouping with another zerker friend.
Who ever is lower level at the time will get a message saying that "something stronger is already in place" and can't be overwritten

Originally Posted by Loter

That's just what I meant. I know it works like a spell. What I'm saying is that I don't find it logical that it does. I see it as an extra strike, a hit, whatever. Therefore it ought to act likewise and then there shouldn't be a stacking issue at all. But what do I know about fixing that... I'm not a programmer, hehe. I just hope these things work differently in EQ2 that will have a totally different program core.

The entire melee discipline/combat ability revamp and addition moved those abilities "into" the spell engine. All snare spells (as far as I know, glancing around Lucy), have the movement modification in Slot 2. If the berserker snare ability moved the snare component to another slot, it would likely stick and the greater of the movement penalties would take effect.

Originally Posted by Bonzz Aye

I get similar messages all the time when grouping with another zerker friend.
Who ever is lower level at the time will get a message saying that "something stronger is already in place" and can't be overwritten

It is also based on the snare percentage of the spell. A level 65 necromancer can "oversnare" anyone else, because their best snare reduces movement by 75%.

[Vekzu]

Originally Posted by Elured

It is also based on the snare percentage of the spell. A level 65 necromancer can "oversnare" anyone else, because their best snare reduces movement by 75%.

Bingo, Elured wins - Necro snare does not reduce movement as much as a berserkers does at that level. I think at level 16 necro might get what? 30 pct reduced movement? If I recall right Berserkers is 55 pct so thats why Berserkers will over ride the low end necros snares.

Originally Posted by Vekzu

Bingo, Elured wins - Necro snare does not reduce movement as much as a berserkers does at that level. I think at level 16 necro might get what? 30 pct reduced movement? If I recall right Berserkers is 55 pct so thats why Berserkers will over ride the low end necros snares.

So what? Tell the necro to use a bigger snare, or as a berserker, don't snare given your group makeup .

Only viable reason to snare at all at that point is if it generates more agro than Stun. Also at low levels, Snare's somewhat ok.

High levels is where it's utterly unreliable. Can state for certain it doesn't overwrite Wizard AE snare, nor Druid ensnare, nor even whatever most 65 necros I've grouped with are using.

Actually, in my paltry experience as a berserker (only lvl 15 been playing for like a week) my leg strike does a pretty good job of generating aggro. I know when I frenzy/legstrike and slash all at once im pretty much guaranteed to get aggro of the creature im hitting. Ive noticed that sometimes i get aggro when i just frenzy/slash but it works alot more often with legstrike.

Also, even though its technically a "spell", I really like the instant click snare for times when my druid forgets or their snare breaks, and the mob bolts with enough health to still be at top speed.

There are two types of snares. The druid line, and the necromancer line. Ensnare and darkness DO stack.

So the question is which parent class is our snare counteraffecting? Most people here are indicating the darkness line, but I'd swear it was the other way around. It cannot conceivably counter both, that'd just be too stupid beyond words on part of the coders fault. Actually, someone test that latter possibility, it's almost stupid enough to be true lately.

[Kumbaja]

There are two types of snares. The druid line, and the necromancer line. Ensnare and darkness DO stack.

This is not correct.

No snares stack some will overwrite others but they won't stack. As a looong time druid I have history with snares. Best thing to do in a group is to decide who is going to snare, most likely the Beserker won't be the best choice because of short duration and variable length.

Generally if the SK is the main tank they are going to snare, after that the ranger is the best bet because they are normally in melee range (unless using bow) and can transfer agro back and forth to the MA fairly easily, beserker would fit in here as well except for variable length of snare being a bad thing. After that you have either necro or druid for snaring. It's probably better for druids to snare over necros in groups that 1) they are not the main healer 2) has a mezzer. Necro snare is a dot and will break mez whereas druids can pre snare mezzed mobs to take some agro off the chanter and allow the aggro to be overwritten by the MA during taunt/mez break. Wizard are generally last case on snare due to the AOE on the snare, it's more difficult to use in cramped corners

Druid/Ranger snare will overwrite Wizard/Beserker Snare but Necro/SK snare will overwrite Druid/Ranger the overwrite is all in the movement decrease %.

Originally Posted by Ndainye

Druid/Ranger snare will overwrite Wizard/Beserker Snare but Necro/SK snare will overwrite Druid/Ranger the overwrite is all in the movement decrease %.

Druid / Ranger Ensnare < Wizard snare. This hasn't changed in 5 years .

T

Embracing Darkness: 75%, DoT 70/tick, lasts 2 minutes (NEC63)
Cascading Darkness: 60%, DoT 72/tick, lasts 2 minutes (NEC49/SK59)
Atol's Spectral Shackles: 60%, AE, lasts 2 minutes
Ensnare: 56%, lasts 12 minutes
Leg Strike: 55%, lasts up to 1 minute

Listed from which takes priority down to least, when it comes to overwriting.

Originally Posted by tuene

Druid / Ranger Ensnare < Wizard snare. This hasn't changed in 5 years .

T

Lucy Druid/Ranger Ensnare

Lucy Wizard Bonds of Force

Ensnare is 56% decrease Bonds of Force is 55% I have no problem overwriting Wizard Snare.

If using Spectral Shackles then wizard snare is 60% and overwrites druid/ranger but I've rarely grouped with wizards that use it in groups, though I'm sure there are some. I believe the wizards I group with intentionally use bonds when grouping with other snarers in order to allow the snares to be overwriten so that longer duration snare can be in effect, I'm not sure though I'd have to ask them. I just wish the necros would too, nothing worse than a last minute runner because snare wore off.

*edit* blah meant that I wish the necros, sk's would use their dot line that doesn't snare.

They've changed the way snares stack in the last couple of years? I played a shadowknight on a PVP server, I can say with some veracity that there was a patch that did make them stack. It was serverwide as far as I know.

I suppose they rescinded that. A damn shame.

Originally Posted by Thorfen Skullsplitter

They've changed the way snares stack in the last couple of years? I played a shadowknight on a PVP server, I can say with some veracity that there was a patch that did make them stack. It was serverwide as far as I know.

I suppose they rescinded that. A damn shame.

Yup, if they had it, it's gone.

As it stands now, no snares currently stack with any other, to my knowledge. I have not been to the high end game so can't speak much on spells past 40ish. That they tried it few years back, I can believe-- either that or it was an oops, that was then retracted in a patch.

If the necro likes castin his dot snare, I let him have it. I just stay ready to smack my hot button if his snare breaks or they forget to cast or have no mana, and the mob makes a break for it. Danged useful havin our snare throw be instant cast.

=o) Dag