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  #1  
Old 10-09-2006, 04:42 PM
Nightel Nightel is offline
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Default Rogue vs Berserker DPS

Hello I am new to these forums and new to the class.

I've talked to several level 75 rogues and zerkers, but I get different things from both sides on DPS. I just wanna hear you guys on our dps vs rogues because I am really considering rerolling a rogue.

-Thanks
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2006, 04:55 PM
Juka Juka is offline
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Play which class you like better :P
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2006, 05:02 PM
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Bernz Bernz is offline
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If your having doubts then roll up a rogue. Berserkers don't pay off in dps gains until late late in the process of leveling up. Only the strong will survive playing the Berserker.
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  #4  
Old 10-09-2006, 05:02 PM
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Lilbraen Lilbraen is offline
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From my experience, if the rogues can get a steady aim at the back of a mob, they will out-dmg equally geared/AA'd zerks.

If the mob's all over the place, expect wizards and rangers to be near the top.

If it's somewhere in between (predictable movement) as it is most of the time in my experience, equally geared/AA'd zerks will take the lead.

Of course all DPS is circumstancial. Rogue DPS is more-reliable with more AAs, but they still do their best DPS behind a mob whereas we can do our best dps on just about any part.

Lastly, sometimes a rogue will just land massive Backstabs consistantly or Zerks will land massive criticals from our discs. Thus, if DPS is the only thing you're looking at producing, rogue and zerk will satisfy your needs. If you wanna be cool while killing, well, you're in the right place.
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  #5  
Old 10-09-2006, 06:21 PM
Ilves Ilves is offline
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As far as Rogues VS Berserkers.

Berserkers = Sexier.
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  #6  
Old 10-09-2006, 07:09 PM
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Skuz Skuz is offline
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Rogues n Zerkers do pretty much the same stuff but in different ways, Zerkers gotta put up with a lot of crap via self dots, self blind, (and all the proc-buff & disc stack management that goes with it) etc to reach their best dps, conversely Rogues gotta dance around & stay on a mobs arse end to do their best.

Rogues are consistent best melee dps over longer phases of time, while zerkers are massive burst damage.

Up against similarly geared/aa'd toons then rogues/wizzies/zerkers/monks & even rangers will be in the top slots for parseable dps, all depends on the fight, & a lot of the result can be swayed by skill, & knowledge.
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  #7  
Old 10-09-2006, 07:26 PM
Pupp Pupp is offline
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Default robgue dps

Rogues, unlike berserkers, have much smoother dps transition over berserkers.

Bersekers have pretty crappy dps until they grind out the offence AA.

a rogue with little or no aa can get alot more dps from thier weapons than berserkers. on the offhand, berserkers get much better gains from AA.

300aa offence aa for a berserker will get alot more dps upgrade than the same for a rogue.
(I have no idea if a rogue w/300aa would have more dps, the gap would shorten considerable in any event).
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  #8  
Old 10-10-2006, 02:04 PM
darkax_FVserver darkax_FVserver is offline
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i know this is a bit off topic. and some one will prob end up yelling at me for it. but does any one know a good website for rogues?
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  #9  
Old 10-10-2006, 02:06 PM
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TheSafehouse.org
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  #10  
Old 10-10-2006, 02:28 PM
Auphischane Auphischane is offline
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Default WooHoo, a topic I can pitch in on.

I've been bringing up a Rogue over the past year, he's 75 and finally got him in a good raiding guild about a month ago. I was lucky to get accepted, if they had not needed rogues, I'm not sure I would have gotten in. I feel a little gimp most times, but I guess you have to get there somehow.

The toon has some raid gear, about 8K unbuffed, 132 AA (till tonight, heh), Fang of Kessdona and Jagged Timeforged Blade for daggers.

I've played a LOT with a zerker friend of mine, we've run all over Norrath as a DPS duo. The zerk has always been able to tank better than me, for whatever reason even when I had superior HP/AC to her toon. DPS has been comparable, but I've had the advantage of survivability.

Her toon has the advantage of making survivability less necessary. She can snare and stun, skills which have saved our bacon on more than one occasion. OTOH, at times when this has failed, I can escape and watch it all go to *CENSORED*.

She has always envied that about my toon, I've always envied that she just had to be "in range" of the mob while I had to work hard to get in and stay in position.

When everything is just right, meaning I can stay behind a mob the entire time, I'll beat her on DPS. But if your tank does not play well with rogues (pushing the mob against a wall), the mob circles a lot, or moves around reducing the number of backstabs I can get in or wasting a few, then she'll beat me.

Having both classes in a group is highly advisable, IMO. The mix of skills the two classes bring to the table is significant. I think the best friend a Zerker can make is Rogue and vice versa.
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  #11  
Old 10-25-2006, 08:04 AM
slazzotz slazzotz is offline
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my friend pixie on maelin is 75 rogue and all i ever hear when she calls me is how she parsered dps with her zerker friend and he was no where near her. yet when i parser with klant on zek im runnin neck in neck, his crits are for 1500-2k on backstabs non disc mine are for 900 non disc, but with the frenzy and destroyers volley it balances out quickley. so alot of times it depends on ego's lol. i wish i was on maelin so i can prove her that i would own her rogue ass 1 on 1 lol

Last edited by slazzotz : 10-25-2006 at 08:06 AM. Reason: mispelled
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  #12  
Old 10-25-2006, 10:41 AM
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Swampfunk Swampfunk is offline
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DPS wise the two classes come out really near each other... with rogues having the slight lead.

To me, I take berserker over rogue because of playstyle... I'm reckless, and pretty aggressive.... which tends to work as a berserker... rogues are cold and calculating.... I know, this is a game, and you can take it however you want... but what I just said, turns out to be the difference most the time...


if you are unsure... yer probably a rogue.
heh
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  #13  
Old 10-25-2006, 11:13 AM
Ishell Ishell is offline
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LOL you know swampfunk I never thought about it that way before but I am a pretty reckless player too, I have a 70 rog and 75 berserker but I never really got into the rog. I am more of a run into the room smashing stuff while the rest of my group is asking if they see invis and other stupid non berserker type questions.
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  #14  
Old 10-25-2006, 11:20 AM
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Wreakin Wreakin is offline
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Group asks, "Do they see invis?"
Berserker responds, "Not for long."
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  #15  
Old 10-25-2006, 11:26 AM
Rebelious Loyalist Rebelious Loyalist is offline
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More like..."They did"
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  #16  
Old 10-25-2006, 11:40 AM
Raspbuten Raspbuten is offline
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Yes! I absolutely agree with Rebel. Invis potions to me are a waste of money. I loathe using them, because I spend about 2k a week on invis potions.

Seriously, I haven't farmed ever. I joined a high end guild on FV at 59 and basically earned my gear raiding. I never had a need to buy and sell stuff and I never have money. So 2k a week is a lot to me. I'd rather just train zonelines willy-nilly and if there's a situation where I need to use one, like so I don't train the group or something in particularly tough spot, then yeah, i'll use one.

Otherwise I don't care. I just hear that a mobs name is called and find the shortest path to him, regardless of death.
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  #17  
Old 10-25-2006, 12:04 PM
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Damager Damager is offline
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Default Rogue vs. Berserker

Other things I considered when rolling my zerker were these:

Berserkers make high DPS tanks for groupable content at the high end

Berserkers can solo a bit easier than rogues

I frequently end up tanking in experience groups and my gear is easily picked up through the bazaar and I am sitting at only 385AA. Being able to get groups that need DPS or a tank has been very beneficial to me.
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  #18  
Old 10-25-2006, 12:38 PM
Hamudanie Hamudanie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampfunk
To me, I take berserker over rogue because of playstyle... I'm reckless, and pretty aggressive.... which tends to work as a berserker...
Hehehe this is so true....

While I do use invis potions (or have invis cast on me) I NEVER con mobs while running accross zones. Sometimes is smush on my way there or zone at 2% HP (hey I lived whats the problem) but I get there.

The other day our group decided to change camps in Direwind and someone rashly stated that the group would follow me. After the second time running past a see-invis mob (and the resulting stop and kill it moment) someone said something. My answer You want to follow me ... its my party and my rules live with it!
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  #19  
Old 10-25-2006, 02:26 PM
Hamudanie Hamudanie is offline
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I was just searching for something and came across a thread from October of last year with the exact same topic of discussion. Rather than bump the thread I'll quote it as it's interesting reading still a year later

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampfunk
Xash from the Safehouse on comparisons of Berserkers to Rogues:

Tanking is gear and agro, if someone wants to tank, they can focus on shielding/avoidance/improved dodge and parry/ac/hps and what not. That is not a class limitation, most chain gear is for any chain wearer and a lot of gear is all/all or melee'centric, not specific to rogues or berserkers. To break it down, berserkers have more hps (but only one weapon, so less hps/ac in many if not all cases, as well as less augs available for primary/secondary) and rogues have more avoidance capability, in reality, neither is that groundbreaking. The gear side of tanking all comes down to what you gear your character to do, rogues can focus on tanking "stuff" or dps "stuff", same with berserkers. There is no "real" advantage.

Agro-wise, a berserker can maintain agro at the cost of dps better than a rogue can, but if a plate tank is available, most times the berserker would be glad to let them tank to achieve better dps, this can be applied to rogues as well, unless I'm mistaken and rogues would like to be better tanks. Neither class even comes close to knights/warriors in comparision. Berserkers have the advantage with agro, but when it all comes down to it, I don't think either class would prefer to tank, unless no tank is available or they are tanking below their progression level (tacvi gear in plane of fire for instance).

In groups, a berserker is a more likely fill in, but neither class are really "meant" to tank. In raids, considering current content, you aren't going to see either class as MT, equally geared with both classes gear focused toward dps, they will be able to handle an odd riposte on a mob spin as well as the other, and neither class will welcome it and ask for more.

What about throwing damage... how about no one bark up that tree, why? Because it's not worth it. EQ wasn't designed with ranged physical damage in mind. To break it down though, rogues get a decent disc to augment throwing, and deadly strikes, so I'd say rogues have the advantage (assuming they have access to Ton Po's or make DoD javilins). What's that advantage mean though? Not much really and I don't think berserkers complain too much that the "kings or throwing" are bested by rogues because the game is melee (even rangers agree unless TS is up).

What about utility then? Hmm raid utility, rogues have SoS/escape/getaway (no comment on how good or bad they are atm, they exist, there is no question of that). DoD npcs seem to be a bit fubar atm, but I imagine it'll get fixed; and bearing that, these skills are not by any means perfect, but there are a lot of places they are handy with recon/recovery, nothing huge, but they exist. Berserkers have ae warcry, which is good for the entire raid (rogues included), not just the berserker. To get back to agro, rogues have evade and berserkers have confusing stikes, rogues can evade more often at no endurance cost, berserkers wait until the tank dies and pop their riposte disc if it's up, then die. Advantage goes to rogues, again though, it's not a huge difference.

Group utility, berserkers get snare and stun, which are preferable mainly if they are needed to tank, stun can save an overnuking necro/wizard, snare can stop a runner, as long as the 12 second timer isn't running since berserkers have 4 skills on the same timer. Now on to rogues, feint can be as helpful as stun to save a caster or set up an add to be cc'ed, though feint lasts a little longer, but being a mez it can be broken, where stun won't be, and it shares a timer with sneak attacks, which depending on the group, may or may not be used anyway. Rogues don't need invis potions or clickies, where berserkers either get VT keyed etc or fill up a bag with batteries or potions. Rogues also get poisons and parlor tricks like picklock/sense traps, which are hit or miss. Overall, berserkers have an advantage in group utility, but since like 9 classes can snare, berserkers typically aren't the ones to do it since it only lasts one minute, so the advantage is there, but not groundbreaking.

What's left, dps? Both classes use entirely different weapon types, so there is not even a chance for competition over the same weapons (availability of said weapons is the fault of questionable itemization, not any of the classes). Berserkers have a bit better burst game, and are less dependant on positioning; where backstab puts out huge numbers, and rogues aren't slouches in the burst department either. In all honesty though, nobody benefits from being in front of the mob and in a lot of cases, it's not that hard to get at the mobs back unless the tanks suck (not to mention the "back" of a mob is actually a reasonably large angle). Since neither class really has any kind of uber advantage over the other in other aspects, and dps is the bread and butter of both classes, I don't see why they shouldn't be equal on average. Sure, there are better players out there and worse players out there, and that definitely effects dps numbers, but that doesn't have much to do with the classes themselves.

Now for a bit of editorial... This type of arguement is totally unimportant and unnecessary, in my opinion. If anything, I'd say casters are all out of whack with DoD release, and if either class is worried about how big their birthday cookie is, they should turn their attention to casters. I think berserkers and rogues work in the same niche, and it's easier to work together than against each other. The player base will always have their individual opinions about who is better at what (not just dps, people have opinions about everything) regardless of whatever numbers they are shown by whoever wants to show them, so more worrying about our own class and less worrying about other classes would likely be more constructive. Best thing would be for everyone to be friends, or everyone to stick to their own camps I guess. All the whiney, "their cookie looks bigger/better/has more chocolate chips/has a neater design in it's frosting than mine" arguements are just plainly counterproductive, but who knows, maybe thats just how I feel.


read that?
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  #20  
Old 10-25-2006, 03:30 PM
gimmendorf gimmendorf is offline
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I love my berserker. I REALLY love my berserker. I thought for half a second about making a rogues but when the Zerks came out there was really no choice. If you like sneaking into places solo and checking out deep dark dungeons as a scout then the rogue is your class. I love the fact that I can still add a ton of dps while tanking lower end content (as I am not raid geared, 460ish AA and like 13k/1900/1.5slashmonster). I can't solo farm the same big mobs that a lot of solo classes can, but I can solo farm tradeskill stuff and some cash zones a LOT faster than most of those
I hardly ever have to spend time on the LFG tool. In the last few months I have had pretty much every group leader say they look for Berserkers first THEN Rogues Anyone who started their Berserker at the begining know how good this feels since we spent well over a year being crapped on in the PU channels and in server conversation in general. Always roll the character you are going to really enjoy and you will always have fun.
I know there isn't anything in this post that says anything about Berserker VS. Rogue utility but who cares? Unless you can be number one there will always be someone who outdoes you. I have had the pleasure of having a freakin Necro tank for me in group after group after group, and glad to have him do it since he is just an insane raid Necro
P.S. We have the best class channel and coolest community in the game, just another benefit of our class!
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